What does it mean to become Japanese? Can a foreigner or ‘gaijin’ ever fully integrate into Japanese society such that they blend in and are treated ‘normally’? A recent video foray into this tricky topic.
There’s a lot of interesting stuff to watch, so fix up dinner, plonk yourself down in front of the computer and get stuck into the wide variety of opinions and ideas brought up by several different foreigners in Japan. My thoughts are right at the end of this post. But we’re getting ahead of ourselves, so let’s go back right to the start…
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BobbyJudo brings up the issue:
‘If you master Japanese language and culture and started living in Japan in a real way, you will be recognised as a Japanese citizen.’
There were many great responses to Bobby’s video, but the real drama began when popular Japanese vlogger Hiroko over at HirokoChannel said:
‘In Japan you are a foreigner, and that’s okay’, seemingly implying that foreigners won’t be fully accepted and that they should not take issue with that.
Tokyo Zeplin took issue with Hiroko’s video and particularly that statement she made and responds by saying that he ‘wants Japanese people to treat him equally’.
Hiroko responds to clarify her position and misunderstanding about foreigners accepting themselves for who they are and in an attempt to quell the uprising of ‘racist’ comments being left on her video.
Gimmeabreakman pitches in and defends Hiroko, adding his own learned advice from many years living in Japan.
Hikosaemon gives us an impromptu and highly detailed account of his attempt to become a Japanese salaryman and explains his own wise views on becoming Japanese.
Finally, I decide to give my two socio-evolutionary pennies on the subject in response to Hikosaemon. Basically musings about there not being enough mixed ethnicities in Japan for foreigners to blend in at this point in time, but that as Japan opens up more and more foreigners find themselves embracing Japanese values and living there permanently that this will – hopefully – begin to change.
Also, how is it best for Japan to internationalise in such a way that it does not lose its culture and traditions, but also so that it may better interact with other countries on a global scale?
But this is certainly not the end of this debate! I would love to hear your opinions on whether foreigners can ever become Japanese and be fully accepted into Japanese society. What do you reckon? Is it possible and how can it be achieved?
Wow, you guys sure love to talk! I didn't have time to look at all of the videos, but I would say that as a 4-year (non) veteran of Japan, that Hiroko's position is about the default that I have encountered among foreigner-facing Japanese. Non-Asians really can't integrate into Japan in the same way because the country is not ready. It shouldn't be a cause for resentment unless you're treatment is discriminatory rather than curious. Most of my experience has been the latter.
I Saw This Whole Mess Of Responses Yesterday And Today I Find Out That U Got All The Videos Lined Up Neatly Thx, I Wish I Had This Page Last Night XD
おもい と やり
lol
Thanks for the comment. Good to know you weren't bored enough to leave a response :)
The view that foreigners cannot become Japanese is a very prevalent one, for sure, but I don't think it is above debating. Sorry to say that I can't share your view that anyone who has lived in Japan for a even short period of time knows or understands Japanese culture. I know I don't understand it fully, despite having lived here over 2 1/2 years.
You're right that Kobe is in Hyogo-ken.
Thanks for getting through it all! You're a star!
I actually had a question about the whole vlogging. It's something that I'm really intrigued with, but despite my searching around for a “master list” so to speak, I've only found individual pages. Pages such as Hirokochannel, Hikosaemon, BobbyJudo, but do you happen to know if there's a congregation site for vloggers like JapanSoc is for bloggers?
I'm looking to try to keep up to speed with their news, and perhaps submit some of my own, but the daunting task of following every person that pops their head in on a reply is slowing me down. If you have any info, that would be great! Thanks :-D
Well done. Lots of different points from different views. While I have never lived in Japan, only visited many times, I cannot see why gaijins would expect to be the same as Japanese. Your points, in particular, to fit in and live, but to keep values you hold dear were well stated. Maybe because I married a Japanese and have never felt discriminated against when I visited Japan, my viewpoints are slanted. I also agree that non-Asians really cannot integrate. More interactions between gaijins and Japanese and more internationalization might be inevitable, but it might not be all that is best. Who knows?
I have already talked about this topic. Well but I will reapt here some of my thoughts…
Firstly, I have same experiences in some sort as you non-Japanese people.
Simply, I have been living in the West as a non-Westerner, so the direction is opposite but the phenomenon is the same.
For instance, Vietnamese born French or Chinese born Australian are called “Asian” and not “French” or “Australian” in their country. Even more, French people having African origin are all called “Black”.
The mechanism of this phenomenon is very simple. In this world, most of people are unfortunately superficial irrespectively of where you are.
And then, I really wonder why you want to be Japanese? If you think that you will not be discriminated if you become Japanese, I’m sorry to say this but you are just DREAMING. Even if you are Japanese, you might get discriminated because you are short or fat or bold or too young or too old. The fact that I am Japanese for example, doesn’t exclude possibilities of other type of discriminations.
I’ve lived 4 years in France, 1 year in Aus and 1 year in UK, but I have never wanted to become French or Aussie or Brit because I find it meaningless.
What’s important for me is that people there treat me as Super Yoshi and not as one of Japanese or one of Asians they even don’t know the name. That’s what really matters. But I have to tell you that it’s REALLY difficult to be achieved. It needs really lots of effort.
As for Japanese returnees, the problem is that most of them are VERY proud of themselves because they are fluent in English and so on. For example, one of my classmates in my uni (Waseda) told me very proudly that she met 2 guys of Chuo University and then they respected her because she is in Waseda Univ. Well, honestly, I wanted to tell her she didn’t take the same exam as non-returnee students. In my uni, retunees can take the same exams as non-Japanese students and it’s much easier than standard exams because it includes Japanese language exam. Kinda cheatinf, isn’t it? That’s why I also have lots of respect for non-Japanese students whose country is not an English-speaking country and who passed the exam in my Uni…
And then, general reputations on returnees are that “returnees are proud of them because they are fluent in foreign languages but useless because they don’t make any effort to improve other skills”. So, some intelligent returnees want to avoid this kind of labelling, that’s why they don’t want to show easily their language skills. I’m trilingual myself, you can trust me for that.
As for Japanese returnees, the problem is that most of them are VERY proud of themselves because they are fluent in English and so on. For example, one of my classmates in my uni (Waseda) told me very proudly that she met 2 guys of Chuo University and then they respected her because she is in Waseda Univ. Well, honestly, I wanted to tell her she didn’t take the same exam as non-returnee students. In my uni, returnees can take the same exams as non-Japanese students and it’s much easier than standard exams because it includes Japanese language exam. Kinda cheatinf, isn’t it? That’s why I also have lots of respect for non-Japanese students whose country is not an English-speaking country and who passed the exam in my Uni…
And then, general reputations on returnees are that “returnees are proud of them because they are fluent in foreign languages but useless because they don’t make any effort to improve other skills”. So, some intelligent returnees want to avoid this kind of labelling, that’s why they don’t want to show easily their language skills. I’m trilingual myself, you can trust me for that.
As for Japanese returnees, the problem is that most of them are VERY proud of themselves because they are fluent in English and so on. For example, one of my classmates in my uni (Waseda) told me very proudly that she met 2 guys of Chuo University and then they respected her because she is in Waseda Univ. Well, honestly, I wanted to tell her she didn’t take the same exam as non-returnee students. In my uni, returnees can take the same exams as non-Japanese students and it’s much easier than standard exams because it includes Japanese language exam. Kinda cheatinf, isn’t it? That’s why I also have lots of respect for non-Japanese students whose country is not an English-speaking country and who passed the exam in my Uni…
And then, general reputations on returnees are that “returnees are proud of them because they are fluent in foreign languages but useless because they don’t make any effort to improve other skills”. So, some intelligent returnees want to avoid this kind of labelling, that’s why they don’t want to show easily their language skills. I’m trilingual myself, you can trust me for that.
I don't know of any congregate sites myself – I tend to just follow people as I find them. If you visit gimmebreakman's or gimmeaflakeman's channel though you can find recommend people and such. Following people who leave good video responses is another method :)
An interesting discussion, though I have to admit I could only play some of the longer clips in the background as I worked. The consensus in the videos seems to be “don't try to take it too far” and I'd agree. There's no sense in forgetting who you are in an attempt to make a life here.
I agree with the comment that Japan is not ready to accept non-Asian immigrants.
Thanks for posting this collection.
Wow. A very interesting discussion.
I wonder how different the discussion would be if instead of saying, “being treated like a tourist” or “being treated like a Japanese,” we used a phrase Hiroko did in her second vid when she said she didn't like “being treated like a baby” in the States. But then I wonder, how many things would fall under the category of being treated like a baby? Where do you draw the line? To me, things like the “oh, you can use chopsticks!” remark fall under the category of Baby, but I suppose to others it falls under Foreigner. When a coworker explains a procedure to me that I've already been doing for seven months, and while asking himself how to say certain things in English and ignoring me completely when I answer at that, I think I'm being treated like a baby. Well, like an idiot would be a more fitting term.
Fortunately, I recognize not all of my coworkers are like that. ^_^b
When asked “Sir, what is the ultimate truth?”, the Master replied, “The sound of one hand clapping.”
The Koan addresses the central issue of all human strivings, “All discursive thoughts and ideas lead to still more discursive thoughts and ideas.”
Why would British or American person – or those who comes from country where immigrant of different races are common – would understand Japanese mentality? Honestly?? You don't understand Japanese and Japanese can't understand you; and I don't think either will ever understand either. But not understanding each other on this one particular matter will not hinder friendship or love for that matter.
I'm half Japanese and half white English and I've spend half my live in each country. I was born in Japan and grew up there going to local schools, and I faced my share of racism and whole load of unpleasantness for simple reasons that I don't look 100% Japanese, my name wasn't Japanese, and my father was 6'2″ with blonde hair and pale eyes. So yeah, I know about not being treated like Japanese despite living there are one and I've had my share of racism stemming from various source, be it ignorance, stereotype or xenophobia.
But at the same time, I can also understand why the culture and attitude is so I can see why they are like that. Obviously that doesn't mean I liked that about Japan. But then what country hasn't got shit sides to them? I moved to England when I was 15 and I don't have enough fingers on my body to count what is shit about this country. British people aren't going to change bad things about them just because 30,000+ Japanese living over here complains are they. No, they aren't.
UK and Japan are equally good and bad in its own way. Neither are going to change in a hurry and and you have to take the bad with the good.
Kudos to Hiroko for being straight up. I also fully endorse what Hikosaemon said.
Living in Japan requires patience and maturity if one wishes to survive in Japan long-term and enjoy one's life. We cannot change who we are, so taking offence at Japanese people viewing us gaijin as being different is just a waste of energy. We are different.
Embrace the wonderful cultural differences that Japan has to offer us gaijin but don't lose sight of who you are.
Omoi yari. Nice post Gakuran man. There are a few reason's I think that you do the best job responding to Bobby out of the videos above. Obv this excludes the epic video by Hikosaemon in Japanese (with subs): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE-cpTzHnWk&anno...
1. As prescribed by your job description, you are on the front line building grassroots intercultural bridges in Japan.
2. You have been “in and out” of Japan a few times, each transition lasting over a year.
3. You have studied – through both your own extensive curiosity and through university – the paradigms of Japaneseness, trends in cultural identity, and being caught between cultures. You have practiced putting these ideas clearly and concisely.
4. Holding both a Philosophy degree and Japanese culture close to your heart, you have clearly been doing some deep thinking about this for years up to recording this 'cast.
As with all things it's a question of degrees. You can integrate so far, but there are stumbling points. As time goes on some things will become easier for foreigners and some will become harder. Aspiring to meaningful, succinct, and well-considered social commentary is useful for everyone.
You say in the post “How to argue in Japanese” that you're looking for a “fight” having you've just come out of university and want to tackle all these questions. I say it's good to keep chasing new ideas, trying to understand the nature of questions that are important to you.
Your cast and the original are the only two above that are watchable, as you are not rambling. Oration is a skill. It's not a chat. So thanks Hikosaemon and Gakuranman. I hope these vids gave some comfort to Bobby!
PS
I feel like the practical message is this.
Living in Japan can be a gruelling experience, so be as proactive as possible. Grab it by the horns. Get involved in as many local things as you can. Drink with the men, get involved with any clubs, festivals, projects, anything you can. Be productive. This is the best therapy for sitting on your arse having a sad and lonely crisis.
Oh, and I already said this on your Youtube Video pages, Gakuranman, but your video responses to this topic are really quite insightful. Thanks for putting all this together in this article on your site so we can watch everything unfold from video to video!
woops. Accidentally tried to post this as a guest without logging in….
Fantastic series of videos. Admittedly I am a relative newcomer to Japan, and have only been here a total of about a year if I add up my various visits plus recent (more permanent, career based) move to Tokyo, but I feel like I'm starting to see some of the cultural layers peel away in my daily interactions with others – particularly through daily life at my work and graduate school. As an anthropologist, I try really hard to listen to everyone's feelings about identity, home, culture and place, and then form somewhat of an understanding about the cultures and subcultures around me… but this is something that any anthro student or professional is told can and will take YEARS to come together for you. Since I have some years to spare, I'm trying to be patient and just let the big picture come together over time. I don't want to become Japanese – but I do enjoy living among Japanese people and making a positive difference in the community around me (I'm okay with participating in things like trash cleanup days and I think it's helped me to be at least recognized as a positive part of the community).
I have to say, Hikosaemon's account on being Japanese and whether or not that is a desirable goal really has a lot for people to think about and really digest intellectually (and I've been thinking about it for the past few days). Honestly, I think he had a lot of really helpful things to say, and I tend to agree that keeping my identity as my own, rather than forcing new definitions or restrictions around it constantly, is something that is very important to me. Observing the general social code is of course important when living in another country and usually makes things a lot easier for you and those around you, but your identity is something you always have control over. If you are a generally unhappy person where you are living now and you want to come to Japan thinking that will make you happy – it probably won't work out. I get a lot of emails from people who want to move to Japan because they love what they've learned about Japanese Culture and have formed this very defined picture of Japan in their heads…(I think this happens to everyone to some extent. Even I admit to having some defined notions before I came!) but I try to remind them that at the end of the day we're all just human – eating, working, sleeping and living in the space around us for better or for worse, AND that what many of the Japanese Video Bloggers have been saying is quite true (I'm paraphrasing here but you get the idea) “Everyone who comes to Japan will have a different experience.” It's wonderful to travel and experience new cultures and ideas, but remembering who you are and why its special for everyone to have their own sense of identity, culture and happiness in life is quite important. That's what I honestly feel.
Oh, and I already said this on your Youtube Video pages, Gakuranman, but your video responses to this topic are really quite insightful. Thanks for putting all this together in this article on your site so we can watch everything unfold from video to video!